The human side of the demo scene is what I think makes it appealing. Sharing and consuming. A fellow human did that! Coder-as-problem-solver-and-artist.
For sure it’s intellectually interesting if AI can generate something novel within demoscene constraints (140 chars or extreme low res or a POKEY chip at 1MHz or whatever) … something humans maybe thought impossible … like a winning move that makes a go or chess grandmaster say WTF. It changes what’s possible. But then most of us (?) still hope the sport/scene/art goes back to human endeavour.
I’ve been to parties where demos are running on a large screen, even ones we’ve seen before, and the audience will ooo and aah because a human figured out how to do that stuff under constraint. The magic is lost if it’s generated IMO.
I think you misunderstand the point of the demoscene. It’s about mathematical prowess and the joy of puzzle-solving moreso than pretty pictures.
Appropriate uses for AI could be to trace the history of demoscene effects, or to explain how a particular scene works so you can understand it better. Nobody in the scene wants a magic box that solves the puzzle for them.
The existence of LLMs is not the problem. The insane way they've been integrated into society is the problem. Back in 2020, GPT-2 was something novel you'd do random experiments with and something like this would've been cool. As long as it remains a silly experiment, it still is cool.
Every time I see a person leading a model to specialize in a uniquely human endeavour, I think of the last lines of this stanza from Bob Dylan's It's Alright, Ma (I'm Only Bleeding):
Disillusioned words like bullets bark
As human gods aim for their mark
Make everything from toy guns that spark
To flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark
It’s easy to see without looking too far
That not much is really sacred
The post seems to refer to a very specific subset of demoscene:
> I came across Dwitter.net, which is like Twitter but for 140 character JavaScript demos. They already supported “remix”-ing any dweet so that we can build on top of them.
This person is actually correct. Demos are much more on the art side of coding than most forms of programming, so while LLMs may be up to the mechanical task, they won't produce code with the finesse that a human coder can. That goes double for the art and music. What's more, a demo with AI-gen elements wouldn't be accepted by the community. AI-gen webshit may be embraced by the industry, but the demoscene has different standards: human craftsmanship is the entire point.
Relatedly, I was a bit surprised and delighted to find out that the Sonic (the Hedgehog) community is vehemently rejecting AI recompiles, ports, and fangame projects. Clankers are ok with them when it comes to Dr. Robotnik's evil creations, but not in the real world!
Would be fun to see models trained on ancient figures that you could interact and chat with.
Less fun to see models imitating human art, they’re not ready for that yet IMP because they’re too derivative and not creative in interesting ways in the way that humans are.
For sure it’s intellectually interesting if AI can generate something novel within demoscene constraints (140 chars or extreme low res or a POKEY chip at 1MHz or whatever) … something humans maybe thought impossible … like a winning move that makes a go or chess grandmaster say WTF. It changes what’s possible. But then most of us (?) still hope the sport/scene/art goes back to human endeavour.
I’ve been to parties where demos are running on a large screen, even ones we’ve seen before, and the audience will ooo and aah because a human figured out how to do that stuff under constraint. The magic is lost if it’s generated IMO.
Appropriate uses for AI could be to trace the history of demoscene effects, or to explain how a particular scene works so you can understand it better. Nobody in the scene wants a magic box that solves the puzzle for them.
I shouldn’t add to this mess.
I used to have a reasonable experience on HN.
> I came across Dwitter.net, which is like Twitter but for 140 character JavaScript demos. They already supported “remix”-ing any dweet so that we can build on top of them.
Relatedly, I was a bit surprised and delighted to find out that the Sonic (the Hedgehog) community is vehemently rejecting AI recompiles, ports, and fangame projects. Clankers are ok with them when it comes to Dr. Robotnik's evil creations, but not in the real world!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demosthenes
Would be fun to see models trained on ancient figures that you could interact and chat with.
Less fun to see models imitating human art, they’re not ready for that yet IMP because they’re too derivative and not creative in interesting ways in the way that humans are.
To me, demoscene was about embracing new technology and using it to express yourself.
It's enshrined now and so I find it to have served it's purpose. Look forward, not back.
slop. Dwitter is nowhere near approaching a count of d/367547